Interview: Runkus On ‘Out:Side’, Jamaican Concept Records And More

In 2017, BBC 1Xtra offered the spotlight to the Portmore artist Runkus with a freestyle session hosted by the English producer Toddla T. On the day of filming at Tuff Gong International studio, the deejay arrived unbound. Atop the Bam Bam riddim, Runkus began his toast with a brief nod to Yellowman before dashing through his own rapid-fire flows, belting out lines that slipped freely between wit and wisdom.

Toddla T, often grinning, popped in and out of the performance while his remix of the world-famous riddim provided a springboard for Runkus’s maze-like rhymes. Though short, the video managed to capture the delight of two dutiful students of Jamaican music as they united to honor Dancehall’s past and rethink its future.

Now, five years on, the two artists have spread that passion across ten tracks on their joint project, Out:Side. The LP closes out Runkus’s conceptual trilogy, led by 2016’s Move In and 2021’s In:Side, and presents the most polished soundtrack yet for Runkus’s widescreen imagination. Toddla T’s production, threaded with samples and skits, is rich with texture and constantly blooming. Songs like Big Chune and Nature Calling : In Out feature Runkus’s carefully-curated words bounding across the pulse of heavy bass.

At the heart of the record is the memory of France Nooks, an artist and a friend of Runkus who was stabbed to death by a taxi driver in 2018. In the wake of this tragedy, Runkus’s faith served as both a balm and a guide. “Hope you spare me Jah / Hope you hear me now,” he sings on the opener Still Alive : Carry Through.

Throughout the LP, he unspools the language of grief, confronting pain through aphorisms (“A hurt people hurt people,”) sharp wordplay (“Dem stab you inna taxi / Dat mean smaddy head a buss,”) and plainspoken thoughts (“Miss me brudda daily bad.”) And even when he’s grown world-weary, Runkus continues to lift his voice to Zion.

Read on as Runkus discusses the stories behind Out:Side, Jamaican concept records, and how Tarrus Riley and Freddie McGregor contributed to his sample-heavy song, I’d Like to Know. 

How did this collaboration with Toddla T come about?

I met him in 2016 after an email introduction with Winta James for Toddla’s Freshman Freestyle. After that, it was history. When I did the freestyle, people got to see that there are really lyrical, conscious youths out of Jamaica. I really appreciate Toddla for that because he even supported my records from a genuine space while at BBC.

We tried to do a mixtape, but it turned into another thing I was doing at the time. In these modern times, I wanted to complete the trilogy that I started with Move In and In:Side. 

For Out:Side, I already had an idea of what the premise should be. I owed it to my bredren,  France Nooks – live on forever. When I linked Toddla and asked if he wanted to do the record, he said yeah let’s go. It was supposed to be an EP of four or five songs, but then it turned into an LP with ten. It was just pure energy. 

Do you feel like your approach to crafting a longer project changed while working with him?

No sah. Toddla trusts me, that’s one. And we’re both similar in terms of what we want for music and the dopeness that we want to achieve. We’re both about the message in the music and about delivering it in a fly way. Delivering it in a way that people can get with.

What was some of the music you guys were sharing with each other while you were working on Out:Side?

Bare old chune from the ‘90s. Some Kanye West, some Tyler, the Creator. Tyler actually dropped Call Me If You Get Lost while we were working and I was preeing him like why Tyler?  

The reason I say that is because I was doing a lot of beat switches on Out:Side, and had already done that heavily on In:Side. Tyler used them a lot on his album but it’s a signature that I like for myself. I even brought over the idea of using the colon in my track titles to put two songs in one, hence Still Alive : Carry Through as the opening track on this LP. 

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What’s the story behind I’d Like To Know? How do samples of Rock the Boat and Big Ship end up on the same song?

When Toddla showed me the samples that we had access to through Trojan Records, I started digging and I began setting aside songs that I wanted to use. I found Rock the Boat by Inner Circle in the collection and I cut up the chorus, I did the chords and after that, I was like, alright the song is done, it’s a girl chune, it’s a whining chune. 

Also, even without drums on the song, I kept on singing the “big ship sailing on the ocean” line from Freddie McGregor’s song. Tarrus Riley actually heard me working on the song in the studio and he helped me come up with the rest of the chorus for it. 

After that, I’d been asking Uncle Freddie to send us the Big Ship part for a while. Literally, the day that the mix for I’d Like to Know came in, we finally got his part. It never made it into the mix so we had to insert it in the master, meaning the song was already done by the time we added Freddie’s part. When it came in though, I was like yeah man, this record is golden.

Concept projects seem to be overlooked by a lot of Jamaican artists, but you thrive on them. What’s the thought process behind making a cohesive concept project for you?

It really revolves around two questions: how am I feeling and how do I want people to feel? I always start off with how am I feeling because if I don’t know the answer then I can’t dictate other people’s feelings or connect with them. 

A lot of people throw a bunch of songs on their projects without giving thought to how those feelings connect to one another. They’d rather randomise their feelings, throw it on the records and that’s it. But then it doesn’t feel cohesive.

That intentionality shines through a lot of your work.  

I don’t think there are many concept projects coming out of Jamaica. I don’t think we lack the talent because Mavado’s The Symphony of David Brooks is one of the most conceptual Dancehall records of all time. There are others like Chronixx’s Roots and Chalice. Jr. Gong’s discography is beautiful to me in terms of how he explores the concept of place, too. Same with Protoje’s. All of his records centre around time and I’ve studied them all.

Are there non-Jamaican concept albums that you look to for inspiration?

Kanye West’s discography from College Dropout until about Yeezus. You can skip out everything else and just go to Donda. Also, Jay Z’s The Black Album and The Blueprint, Eminem’s The Marshall Mathers LP, and every Kendrick Lamar album. 

Personally, I’m trying to outdo Kendrick. If I was to express myself on a really deep and lyrical level, many people would miss the point though. And I’m not trying to do that. I’m trying to make sure listeners get what I’m saying. I’m trying to relate to the people of my culture.

When it comes down to concepts, I always want to give people more than they ask for, more than they think they need, and even more than they thought could occur. It’s like a disrespect to the universe and to the Almighty if my mind is blessed in these regards and I’m not expressing myself.

How did making such a personal project affect you?

The technicality that went into the project, from a thought process, is not regular. Trust me. I learned a lot about my skillset, a lot about my spirit, and my personality. I learned a lot doing this record. It wasn’t just a record for me. 

Listen, at the end of the day, mi nuh business bout nuh million views, nuh million plays. None a dat. Because this was for France Nooks. That’s all, you know. And my bredrin a smile from Zion right now a say, Yeah, respect my bro. Thank you for immortalising me in the form of a physical thing.

When the Egyptian pharaohs dem a leff earth, you know wah dem do? All of dem try build the biggest monuments and the biggest obelisks and leave back something inna earth. You know why? To be remembered. Because the more people say your name, the more power you have inna the spirit realm. 

Where do you want to take your music from here?

I’ve already begun conceptualising my next record. I have a bunch of album ideas that I want to make and that I want to produce for people. I’ve made a vow to myself to give people more bodies of work that can stand the test of time. I might go on a single-based run after Out:Side for a little bit before I do my next record. 

What do you want for yourself?

At the end of the day, I just want to see greatness from Jamaica. If not by myself, then from others. I hope Out:Side can inspire others. I’ve met nuff of my peers, and they tell me I’ve inspired them and I’m like whoa, but you’ve inspired me.

I always want to make the people know seh dem great and that they can do some great things. It’s the least we can do for Jamaica and for the culture and for Rastafari, you know?